Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 20:10:50 GMT From: plepez@ulb.ac.be (Lepez Philippe) Message-ID: <9303172010.AA29522@is1.vub.ac.be> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Look of our kites Hi all. Two questions about the look of our fine kites : - how can one paint the rispstop nylon, - does the 2 wings need to be symmetric in the point of view of colour, the point is stretching and ageing of the nylon (I like 'rainbow' kites). Any advise is welcome. Good winds. -- Philippe Lepez (CP 125), | | Good kite Universite Libre de Bruxelles, | Email: plepez@ulb.ac.be | + Good wind 50 av. Roosevelt, | Phone: 32.2.6503553 | ---------------- 1050 Bruxelles, Belgique. | Fax : 32.2.6503323 | = A lot of fun ! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 17:15:53 GMT From: sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-ID: <1993Mar18.171553.25569@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Look of our kites In article <9303172010.AA29522@is1.vub.ac.be>, plepez@ulb.ac.be (Lepez Philippe) writes: >- how can one paint the rispstop nylon, Painting is difficult. Paint flakes off. You can dye ripstop nylon. There was an article in Kite Lines that talked about dying nylon. >- does the 2 wings need to be symmetric in the point of view of colour, the point is stretching and ageing of the >nylon (I like 'rainbow' kites). I've found that the direction of the grain of the fabric on a kite is very important for the overall performance. Of course this depends on the overall design of the kite. There have been kites that have not been left/right symmetrical that have flown well. So, my advice is that you try your design and let the rest of us know how well it ages. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Operations Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 23 Mar 93 07:49:08 GMT From: lucifer@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Light-Bearer) Message-ID: <1onpjkINNmhq@emx.cc.utexas.edu> Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Subject: Re: Asymmetric Colors (was Re: Look of our kites) In article <1993Mar18.171553.25569@das.harvard.edu> sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: > >In article <9303172010.AA29522@is1.vub.ac.be>, plepez@ulb.ac.be (Lepez Philippe) writes: [stuff deleted] >>- does the 2 wings need to be symmetric in the point of view of colour, the point is stretching and ageing of the >>nylon (I like 'rainbow' kites). > >I've found that the direction of the grain of the fabric on a kite is >very important for the overall performance. Of course this depends on >the overall design of the kite. > >There have been kites that have not been left/right symmetrical that >have flown well. So, my advice is that you try your design and let the >rest of us know how well it ages. >-- >Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications >sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Operations Division 26 Green Street >617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 > Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 I have the asymmetric Wizard by Bob Childs. I've noticed that the sail definitely does not sit evenly on the frame. One side seems to be about 1/2" smaller in the sense that the sail always butts up against the "T"-fitting on one side (i.e. the whole sail seems to be shifted on the frame). This could be caused by differential stretching between the two sides, or the sail might not have been sewn properly to begin with. Unfortunately, I didn't take any measurements BEFORE I flew it for several hours. The differential stretch (if it is such), while not desirable, hasn't really hurt the kite's performance... it just takes a bit of tweeking on the bridles to get a uniform response. Dean -- Q \ | Dean C. Hines, Astronomy | dhines@astro.as.utexas.edu | |-+=========|> | University of Texas | dhines@pan.as.utexas.edu | / \ _/ | Austin, TX 78712 | -----------------------------| -----------------| "No, it's not a spaceship, it's a Stunt Kite... sheesh! | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 08:37:40 GMT From: plepez@ulb.ac.be (Lepez Philippe) Message-ID: <9303280837.AA10720@is1.vub.ac.be> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: assymetric kites Hi all, There has been some traffic about my question for asymmetric kites : I realise I was not precise enough. The point was : does asymmetric colour pattern modify kite ageing. I am a novice so I am not able to design a kite by my own. BTW. I cannot imagine what would be the interest of an asymmetrical stunt kite : you must turn right and left, asymmetry would lead to an asymmetrical manoeuvrability. For static kite, you may which to have a special shape. I have pictures of kites looking like a witch on her broom (is that correct ?) or like a boat. Good winds. Philippe. -- Philippe Lepez (CP 125), | | Good kite Universite Libre de Bruxelles, | Email: plepez@ulb.ac.be | + Good wind 50 av. Roosevelt, | Phone: 32.2.6503553 | ---------------- 1050 Bruxelles, Belgique. | Fax : 32.2.6503323 | = A lot of fun ! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 28 Mar 93 12:27:21 GMT From: dadams@dstrike.demon.co.uk (David Adams) Message-ID: <733321641snz@dstrike.demon.co.uk> Organization: Data Strike Computers Subject: Re: assymetric kites In article <9303280837.AA10720@is1.vub.ac.be> plepez@ulb.ac.be writes: < stuff deleted > > >I am a novice so I am not able to design a kite by my own. BTW. A novice can design a kite. It may be more of a trial and error process than for someone who has done it before, but where does an expert start? Anyone who makes out that things like making a kite or flying a revolution are difficult are just trying to make themselves feel smart. Give it a go. -- David Adams = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: 28 Mar 1993 14:20:54 GMT From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) Message-ID: <1p4c86$eml@umd5.umd.edu> Organization: University of Maryland at College Park Subject: Re: assymetric kites In article <9303280837.AA10720@is1.vub.ac.be> plepez@ulb.ac.be (Lepez Philippe) writes: >There has been some traffic about my question for asymmetric kites : I >realise I was not precise enough. The point was : does asymmetric colour >pattern modify kite ageing. I'm still a bit unclear as to what you mean by this. Do you mean that the shapes of the panels are actually different on each side of the kite? Or more simply, that corresponding panels on each side of the kite are sewn with different colors? If the former, yes, there's a definite chance that the sail won't stretch the same way. This is somewhat dependent on where the non-symmetrical panels are placed. It's riskier to have them near the trailing edge, which is very susceptible to stretching. Even if the biases are the symmetrical on both sides of the kite, the seams used to hold the panels together can affect the amount of stretch. This is not to say that you should make a kite with such a pattern. One of my favorite kites is a patchwork of random pieces (and random biases--I was more concerned with making the scraps I had into a kite than with making a kite that would last forever). It flew incredibly for about 6 months (of rather heavy usage on the order of 5-10 hours/week) but now I'm starting to pay for the assymetry of the kite. I can *see* one half of the sail rippling as the kite flies, while the other side is nice and taut. But I got a lot of flying out of this kite and I've no complaints about it! If you were talking about using different colors for corresponding panels on either side of the kite, well, the jury is still out on that one. It seems to depend somewhat on the type of fabric used, and definitely on the colors you use. Different colors of fabric fade/age faster than others, and which colors do that depend somewhat on the manufacturer. For example, the purple fabric that Rev uses fades very quickly (I've seen a cool rainbow Rev II with a *white* panel; I asked the owner where he got his custom kite, and he told me it was a stock cool rainbow with a lot of fading!) In the days of the original Revs, though ('89 and and thereabouts), the purple fabric they used was very colorfast. (I have a pink/purple Rev I from March '89; the pink is faded all to hell, but the purple is as vibrant as it ever was). I asked one of the Hadzickis about it once, and he lamented the fact that they couldn't get the colorfast purple anymore. Most neon greens I've seen have had a tendency to fade rather quickly. There's one particular color that Air Affairs uses in their FlowForms that gets UV'd to death rather quickly, and I can't recall which color it is. But at the KiteLoft's SunFest auction every year, you see the same color panels needing to be repaired on all of the 252's that they auction off. >I am a novice so I am not able to design a kite by my own. BTW. I cannot >imagine what would be the interest of an asymmetrical stunt kite : you must >turn right and left, asymmetry would lead to an asymmetrical manoeuvrability. First off, the assymetry most folks are talking about here has to do with the shapes of the panels that make up the kite, not the actual kite itself. As for making a stuntkite that's assymetrical, well, obviously, its purpose would be strictly novelty...but I don't think I've ever seen one like that. Hope this helps with some clarification. Jeff -- |Jeffrey C. Burka | "Fairies are the perfect people to do this | |SAFH Lite [tm] | sort of work. Biologically, their upper | |jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu | bodies are strong enough to wield a pickaxe...." | = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 15:47:48 GMT From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-ID: Organization: Negligible. Subject: Re: assymetric kites In article <1p4c86$eml@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes: >If you were talking about using different colors for corresponding >panels on either side of the kite, well, the jury is still out on that >one. I've seen a "crystal" kite, which used different fabric colours in different sectors of the kite. Close inspection revealed different fabric tensions in differently coloured areas. Dark purple had stretched more than other colours. As I recall, it was the darker shades that were effected by stretch the most. Andrew -- andrew@tug.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 16:38:43 GMT From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne) Message-ID: <1993Mar28.163843.23829@nic.funet.fi> Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET Subject: Re: assymetric kites In <9303280837.AA10720@is1.vub.ac.be> plepez@ulb.ac.be (Lepez Philippe) writes: >There has been some traffic about my question for asymmetric kites : I realise >I was not precise enough. The point was : does asymmetric colour pattern modify >kite ageing. As far as you have same fabric, with same "type" of colors it doesn't matter in which order you put your pieces. But, if you are using "conventional" colors and fluorescent colors, nylon and polyester, different weights mixed, you can expect _uneven_ ageing. >I am a novice so I am not able to design a kite by my own. BTW. I cannot >imagine what would be the interest of an asymmetrical stunt kite : you must >turn right and left, asymmetry would lead to an asymmetrical manoeuvrability. I have flown asymmetrical stunt kites in ballet, two seasons. I _feel_ the music I am flying to is "asymmetrical" that's why I feel, I can interpret it better with asymmetrically flying kite. (Last season the judges started to understand it, too:-) Besides the assymetrical shape and flying charasteristics my ballet kites have asymmetrical graphic patterns. I haven't noticed any uneven ageing. Smooth Winds Simo Salanne