Subject: Re: UN

From: Alexis Turner <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:37:21 -0400 (EDT)

I don't want to clutter up everyone's inboxes with dozens of rants that
amount to hyperventilating and lots of "IiiiEEEE's!," but if anyone would
like to e-mail me off list with their thoughts on the UN's WSIS conference
and why having them replace ICANN would be a good/bad thing for the
Internet, I would love to hear it.  I'm not looking to pick a fight or
argue - I'm just honestly interested in hearing the various opinions.  The
issue is a lot bigger than anything I can get my head around right now,
and hearing what other people have to say would help me think about it
more constructively.

I myself am on this list more or less "Just for kicks," or, as I prefer to
think of it, "personal edification," but do note that it is possible
quotes from your e-mails will make it onto a personal site that I use for
my own rambling and probably incoherent research.  If you don't want
this, just say so.
-Alexis

PS: Bonus points if you actually read what they are proposing before you
respond.

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

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From: Peter Dambier <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:41:32 +0200

> PS: Bonus points if you actually read what they are proposing before you

Hi Alexis,

I followed the discussion list. I could hardly follow it.

Is there a UN?

To me it looks like a bunch of small and not so small dictators at the table
and several rooms full of intelligent people outside.

It might be interesting to give them the internet. But how should you do
that? What could they do with it?

Give them the root. The root operators will laughingly stand up and go away.
Each of them will start running his own root on his own hardware.

The internet hardware? Belongs to companies that were not allowed to join.
How should all the internet operators find out what "the UN" want them to
do if they dont allow them in?

I dont think anything but a lot of wasted paper will come out of that meeting.

Kind regards,
Peter and Karin Dambier

-- 
Peter and Karin Dambier
Public-Root
Graeffstrasse 14
D-64646 Heppenheim
+49-6252-671788 (Telekom)
+49-179-108-3978 (O2 Genion)
+49-6252-750308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
+1-360-448-1275 (VoIP: freeworldialup.com)
mail: [email-masked]
http://iason.site.voila.fr
http://www.kokoom.com/iason

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From: Paul Hoffman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:09:22 -0700

>Each of them will start running his own root on his own hardware.

You talk as if you were a root operator and you know what they would 
do. In fact, you run an alternate root, not a real root, so it seems 
that you knowing what real root operators would do is particularly 
unlikely.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--VPN Consortium

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From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:40:24 +0200

> that you knowing what real root operators would do is particularly 

There really isn't any such thing as a "real root" or "alternate root"
on the Internet, just as paper currency and coins have no "real
value."  It all depends on what the majority decides to do.  If
everyone switches to an "alternate root" tomorrow, then the "real
root" won't matter.

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From: kent crispin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:34:06 -0700

> everyone switches to an "alternate root" tomorrow, then the "real

That's sounds good, but in fact, it's utter nonsense.  It's like saying that
the only difference between rowboat and a cargo ship is what people believe
about them.  In fact, if everybody started using one of the alternate roots,
it would simply collapse. 

There is far more to the real root system than just human sentiment.  There
is heavy duty infrastructure, both human and physical, involved.

-- 
Kent Crispin 
[email-masked]    p: +1 310 823 9358  f: +1 310 823 8649
[email-masked] SIP: [email-masked]

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From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:25:50 +0200

On Thu, Sep 29, 2005 at 10:34:06PM -0700,
 kent crispin <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 32 lines which said:

> In fact, if everybody started using one of the alternate roots, it
> would simply collapse.

You're mixing "the network of root servers" with "the root"
(Doc/NTIA). The first is a delicate engineering achievment and is not
easy to replace. The second one is just a desk with two civil
servants.
 
> There is heavy duty infrastructure, both human and physical,
> involved.

So, I would rephrase Anthony G. Atkielski's thought experiment:

If every root name server operator switches to an "alternate root"
tomorrow, then the "real root" won't matter.

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:12:41 +0200

Hi,

Although what WSIS may or may not decide is undoubtedly of
interest to the Internet community, I really think it is a
distraction here and now until there are concrete questions
for us to discuss. Our community's route to the WSIS discussions
is through the ISOC - where basic membership is free, by the way.

      Brian

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From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 19:19:52 +0200

> it would simply collapse.

Well, no.  If everyone started using the same alternate roots, then
the alternate roots would effectively be the real roots.

> is heavy duty infrastructure, both human and physical, involved.

Nothing prevents the operators of alternate roots from putting the
same type of infrastructure into place.