Subject: RE: "The IETF has difficulty solving complex problems" or alternatively Why IMS is a big fat ugly incomprehensiable protocol

From: "Hallam-Baker, Phillip" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:13:52 -0700

> Behalf Of Masataka Ohta

> If you have complicated requirements, you are wrong.

You are only ever wrong if you do not listen to your customers and as a
result fail to provide them with what they want.

The world is complex, sometimes solutions must also be complex. In those
cases the design choice is where you put the complexity.

I have seen plenty of systems that have become complex and baroque
because the design was too simple. SMTP is a prime example, the
complexity of the modern email system is the direct result of failing to
acknowledge and make provision for important use cases such as mailing
lists and forwarders.

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From: Jeffrey Hutzelman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:09:37 -0400

> result fail to provide them with what they want.

This is a vast oversimplification.  Even if you give your customers what 
they want, you can still be wrong if your solution fails to behave properly 
in relation to the rest of the world (stealing resources, violating other 
people's rights, etc).

> cases the design choice is where you put the complexity.

This, however, is right on target.

-- Jeff

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From: Masataka Ohta <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:34:09 +0900

Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:

> they want, you can still be wrong if your solution fails to behave 
> properly in relation to the rest of the world (stealing resources, 
> violating other people's rights, etc).

Once upon a time, telephone industry listened to its
customers (telephone companies) and provided them with what
ehy want.

As a result, telephone equipments becaome more and more
complicated with more and more complicated specifications.

Most of them are overtook by simpler equipments using IP.

> This, however, is right on target.

In theory, maybe.

However, I have never seen such a design choice necessary
for network protocols.

We don't need 3GPP for the mobile internetworking.

						Masataka Ohta