Re: "Serious" IF (was Re: Gareth's competition comments)


18 Oct 1995 16:35:03 -0400

In article <463iip$fh5@life.ai.mit.edu>, David Baggett <dmb@ai.mit.edu> wrote:
>Yes, but the distressing thing is that even books are not terribly viable
>these days. It's only because printing is so cheap that there are as many
>books as there are. Most publishers seem to prop themselves up on a few
>hit titles (like _The Bridges of Madison County_).

This is true, unfortunately. Julie Fallowfield tells me she can't sell
ANYTHING these days, so at least it's not just my stuff...

>There --- you're doing it! You're saying that one is better than the other
>within a certain context. This may be true, but says nothing about which
>one is better in an absolute sense.

What's the "absolute sense?" Who decides what criteria are used to judge
a painting/book/game/whatever? Okay, so this discussion is getting a
little metaphysical, but heck - you know where I stand on this.

>Consider this analogy: A fast computer, I think we'd all agree, is
>absolutely better than a slow one, all other things being equal. Yet you
>could argue that the slow one is better, for example, if you're getting
>paid by the hour and you don't like the work you're doing on the computer.

Or if you want to play "Wing Commander" on your Pentium...can't be done. :)

I don't think the comparison is apt. You're comparing machine speed (a
quantifiable thing which is subject to the physical laws of the universe)
with artistic elements (possibly quantifiable, but created by human
beings). And one computer "competes" with another. Bach (classical
music) isn't in competition with Michael Jackson (pop music).

>The fact that there is a limited context in which we might prefer A to B is
>no reason to throw common sense (or, in this case, artistic sensiblilty)
>out the window and refuse to make an overall qualitative judgment on A
>vs. B.

Heck, I'll happily make artistic judgments left and right. I'll happily
say "The Bridges of Madison County" is the worst piece of crap ever to
grace the shelves of a bookstore (for example). That's opinion. But the
problem with comparing Bach to Michael Jackson, using the criteria that
make Bach excellent classical music, is that the contest is rigged.

>I don't think I'll ever agree with the idea that all things are equally
>good. It's counterproductive (since it argues against trying to improve
>one's work --- what does it mean to improve something if it's all a matter
>of finding the right context in which to consider it anyway?), and it
>makes criticism essentially irrelevant.

I fully agree, and I'm not saying all things are equally good. Now, is
Bach better than, say, Handel? That's worth discussing.

>>Same genre. Not the same argument. "Music in General" <> "IF"
>
>I don't see your point here. How is "IF in general" an acceptable context
>while "Music in general" isn't?

Not sure it is. Perhaps I was wrong here. "Planetfall" and your
"Legend" game, for example, are very different. But they're closer, in
form, content, and goals, than Bach and Michael Jackson.

>Of course it's important to understand an author's intentions before
>reviewing a work. But that doesn't mean I can write garbage and expect
>people to call it wonderful "in the context of a game that's supposed to be
>garbage" --- as wonderful as Trinity is "in the context of a game that's
>supposed to be a work of art." It seems to me that the relativism you are
>so fond of leads us to equate these two kinds of "wonderful," which is an
>obvious mistake.

Ugh. Not the point I was trying to make. If the author's striving to
write garbage, all bets are off. Now, if he's trying to write crude,
disgusting parody (let's say, for example, someone writes a game called
"Sociopath", heh heh) then there are two things you can do: 1) say the
game is a bad/good/whatever example of the "crude disgusting parody"
genre and 2) say you don't like the "crude disgusting parody" genre as a
whole. There's a wide variety of reasons you can call the theoretical
"Sociopath" game crap -- but you've got to define your terms.

-----
Dave Leary
(Nope, my views don't represent UMAB...good thing, huh?)

"I've been of thousand devils caught,
And thrust into that horrid place,
Where reign dismay, despair, disgrace." -- George Crabbe